Posts by Jeremy C

3

What does the Borg want us to perceive next?

by edmond dantes in

the whacktower leaders are the masters of making people perceive falsehood.

for example they promoted 1975 as the conclusion time, the rank and file perceived that 75 would bring the end and when it didn't happen their leaders said "you perceive too much.

" beth sarim was placed in the mind as the place where ancient worthies would return and once again the rank and file were told you perceived wrongly.. the generation with eyes to see perceived 1914 and declared jesus has arrived back we just can't make out what he looks like.

Jeremy C

Someone in another thread stated that the Watchtower leadership is focussing on crowd control at this point. I tend to agree with this. The free flow of information and the accompanying discussions of such information that is available on the internet is doing a lot of damage.

A natural result of this internet phenomenon is that it will become easier for thinking Witnesses to tip-tow out of the organization since there is now a large ex-Witness community that is available for support. Ex-JWs are not so isolated as they were before the internet. With ex-JW meetups increasing, it is easier for faders to leave the organization once and for all without returning.

What the organization must do now is convince its membership that great danger lies just outside the confines of the Watchtower walls. They must convince the membership that further clamp-downs are not really clamp-downs, but are protective measures - in the way shepherds protect a flock of sheep from oncomming wolves (i.e. worldly information, apostates, etc.). Shepherds herd their sheep into a tighter concentrated area so that they can be watched and protected. There are many Watchtower Witnesses who not only believe in this line of thinking, but welcome it. But, this can only work for so long - and with fewer and fewer people. When an apocalyptic organization that preaches "the end is near" has outlasted over 15 U.S. Presidents, people take notice . . . . . with amusement.

33

Witchtower twists yet another scripture 2Cor 12: 8 -10 Nov 15 WT

by hamsterbait in

november 15 study edition, p24 para 5.. "regarding his "thorn in the flesh", paul made fervent pleas to jehovah (the scripture actually says the lord) read 2 cor 12: 8 - 10) god did not miraculously relieve paul of the "thorn in the flesh".

instead, god strengthened him to endure it.

jehovah's (whose???

Jeremy C

These Scriptural contortions would have been much more difficult to pull off had the Watchtower not produced its own Bible back in the 1950s. Arbitrarily placing the name of Jehovah into various versus which contained the word "Lord" (and where the context was clearly referring to Jesus) lends credence to the way in which they twist the verses in 2 Corinthians chapter 12. The insertion of the name Jehovah into the New Testament of the New World Translation also helps to bolster the Watchtower's re-writing of first century history. It also shores up their argument that true Christians must spread and exalt the name Jehovah instead of Jesus.

Instead of allowing the Scriptures to speak for themselves, the NWT translators already had a pre-conceived idea of what certain versus "should be saying". Not only has the Watchtower claimed to resurect the true Christian Gospel in our modern era, but they have also made the claim to restore New Testament versus to what they "originally said" (i.e. what the Watchtower wants them to say). I don't know how anyone can see this as anything other than pure hubris, and self-serving arrogance!

15

Making You Feel Guilty Is What The Watchtower Does Best!

by minimus in

jw
friends

they beat people up with false "encouragment" to do more.

one could never ever fulfill the organization's demands.

it is impossible.

Jeremy C

If you want to truly understand the psychology of the Watchtower leadership, I highly recommend that you do some reading into the research that psychologists have done on what they refer to as "toxic parents". A toxic parent is one who smothers their children with excessive protective measures, attempts to manipulate their likes and dislikes, coerces them into compliance, and continually manipulates them with guilt. Instead of raising a confident, self-reliant, and autonomous individual, a toxic parent attempts to mold their child into a carbon copy of themselves by using disaproval and guilt as a means of punishing independent behavior as they grow up.

Psychologists have noted that parents like this subconsciously do not want their children to grow up out of childhood, because they need to feel needed and in control over someone else. In fact, their is a book out on Amazon that is titled "Toxic Parents". It is a good read, in the context of high control groups. I have noted that the Watchtower organization's leadership engages with it's members in this manner. I wrote a thread on this very topic some time back. Here is the link:

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/159650/1.ashx

93

To SO CAL: What CO's and DO's do we all know?

by IreallydidwalkoutofaKH in

jw
friends

okay, in order it goes like this for me............brother peace 1980-83, brother rose 1984-86, brother yasko 1986-88, brother sekella 1988-91, brother billy ford 1992-95, brother davis 1996-99, brother irskin 2000-03 and then it gets kinda blurry....brother burge and another, brother hairston.

okay, that just about does it.

i have this topic becauce i tried reading the favorite co and do thread, but did not recognize any names......

Jeremy C

J C Howard ( not J D ) ...

Ah yes, sorry about that blunder. It has been so long since I’ve seen him speak that I forget his precise name.

In personal, one-on-one interaction Howard and his wife were very down-to-earth, compassionate people.

I should have expanded upon my comments regarding J.C. Howard. I suppose I was a bit harsh without mentioning any of the man’s positive qualities. Although I found his talks to be a very crass and merciless back in the early 1990s, I did notice a drastic change when I last saw him speak in late 2005 at a Norco circuit assembly. In late 2005, he seemed feeble, and physically weak. He was now walking with a cane and obviously in poor health.

He seemed very docile and compassionate in his talk regarding performing service; which was a 180 degree turn from his style of only a decade ago. I found it odd that his talk seemed to go completely against the basic theme of the assembly which seemed to be "you people aren’t doing enough, you need to get off your butts and do more". This was the general spirit of the talks by the Circuit and District Overseers during the two days. Not so with J.C. Howard though.

Howard’s talk emphasized the need for overseers to be gentle, compassionate, using upbuilding words to motivate instead of criticism. He even stated that coercion and condemnation should never be used; since the friends have do deal with enough of this in the world. I was impressed to say the least. I sat there thinking: "This guy actually gets it."

I believe that harsh and demanding traveling overseers often go through personal transformations when they themselves go through personal crisis such as major health problems, or when they must resign from the traveling work and are no longer supported by the headquarters. Sometimes a deeper sense of compassion and understanding comes to them in the midst of their own crisis; as it does with so many others.

regarding Bill Baxter.............Do you remember his ...........RRRRiiiiiiiiiiiiiiBBBBBBBBBBBiiiiiiiiiiitttttttttttttttt take. It was something to do with acting like a frog and not taking action. I don't know exactly, I was 12 and bored to death in the Norco assembly hall, but the rrrrriiiiiibbbbbbbbit take caught my attention!

Regarding Baxter, I remember this talk quite well, as it was always commented on by my parents after the fact.

The basic thrust of the talk was that worldly people are continuously influencing Jehovah’s Witnesses to compromise their Christians standards gradually - just a little bit at a time. He stated that the world will tempt us to walk into its ways gradually; going a little bit further each time, as if we were tempted to walk out into the water of a pond (the world).

He said that the world is like a pond filled with frogs. The frogs will constantly tempt you to "wade into the pond" just a little bit, only to where the water is knee-deep. Thus, he would repeat the line: "wade in . . . . . . knee deep . . . . knee deep. . . . knee deep. . . . knee deep."

27

When You Were In, Did You Regard Apostates As Losers?

by minimus in

jw
friends

we were trained to not even look at them at conventions.

Jeremy C

I always believed that ex-Jehovah’s Witnesses were simply angry malcontents who were obsessed with "trivialities" such as 1914 and 1975. This view came from the fact that the only ex-JWs that I did observe were those who picketed our conventions. Those who picketed conventions always behaved in an angry and anti-social manner - chanting slogans, and waving signs. Little did I know that I was observing less than 1% of the ex-JW demographic.

This is why I believe that the majority of convention picketers do more harm than good. If convention picketers are considered "losers" by Jehovah’s Witnesses, I believe that they have often earned it. They are often the only ex-Witnesses that active JWs ever see, yet their angry and caustic demeanors become the visual representation of what it means to leave the JW organization. I do not believe that shouting sarcastic slogans at people is informative. I believe that it is childishly self-indulgent.

Jehovah’s Witnesses need to see the vast numbers of those who have left the organization and who have maintained their dignity, humility, kindness, compassion; and who are happy. I believe that the work done by people like Ray Franz, Peter Gregerson, Ron Frye, Randy Watters, and Cynthia Hampton is having a very positive effect.

5

"Meeting the Challenge of Loyalty"

by compound complex in

jw
friends

"there are other aspects to the matter of meeting the challenge of loyalty to the congregation and its elders.

if there are somewhat troubled conditions in the congregation, this gives us opportunity to display loyalty to jehovah and those representing him.

" (italics added).

Jeremy C

I actually learned a great deal by reading Ray Franz’s book: In Search Of Christian Freedom. His chapters on centralized authority, legalism, and the congregational arrangement in the first century were very well researched and helped me untangle a lot of the convoluted JW thinking that I held toward Christianity.

Franz points out that modern day Jehovah’s Witnesses are so deeply ingrained with the organizational concept; with it’s top-down management structure, that they project this view onto the historical accounts of the first century Christians. They filter the New Testament through this lens which seriously distorts the facts. If one takes the time to do research into church history (instead of merely reading WT publications about it) one will find that the modern day JW organizational model is totally absent in the New Testament. It was something that developed after the deaths of the Apostles in the emergence of the Church of Rome.

17

Why I Believe The Bible, A Nuclear Scientist Tells His Story

by whereami in

jw
friends

this guy obviously hasn't done enough research.. http://www.watchtower.org/e/20040122a/article_01.htm.

Jeremy C

Its humorous how the Watchtower is trying to bolster it’s 1914 position by publicizing this testimonial of a physicist who accepts it. There were plenty highly educated members of the Adventist movements who accepted those chronologies. There are also nuclear physicists who believe in the Koran. So what?

It is interesting to note that Francis Collins who has been one of the United States leading geneticists, and who was head of the Human Genome Project; later came to believe in the Bible as well. Why didn’t the Watchtower report this amazing testimony? Probably because Collins became a Born Again Christian and accepts the trinity.

Watchtower testimonials remind me of those late night commercials for exercise equipment. They always show the one guy who supposedly got twenty inch biceps by using some rubber strap with a handle on it. The only people who buy into it are those who already wanted to believe in it.

5

"Meeting the Challenge of Loyalty"

by compound complex in

jw
friends

"there are other aspects to the matter of meeting the challenge of loyalty to the congregation and its elders.

if there are somewhat troubled conditions in the congregation, this gives us opportunity to display loyalty to jehovah and those representing him.

" (italics added).

Jeremy C

The concept of giving loyalty to men; either individually or collectively is foreign to the Scriptures. If there was anything that Paul was so forcefully trying to convey in his teachings regarding the relationship of Christians to congregation elders was that obedience within the congregation was relative and not absolute.

Obedience was given only to the extent to which elders did not overstep their bounds and attempt to reinstitute legalism, or a Talmudic system within the congregation. The account at Acts chapter 15 is a perfect example of how Paul stood up to the elders at Jerusalem who attempted to impose circumcision on converts. If the modern day Watchtower Governing Body model had been in place back then, their imposing of such a ruling would have been final, and Paul would have been disfellowshipped for apostasy in his opposition to the body. As it turned out, the body of elders actually had to reconsider their position and later accepted correction from Paul; as recorded in Galatians.

Their was also no concept of giving loyalty to a congregational present within the Apostolic writings. Congregations were described as free associations of Christ’s followers with no mention of membership rosters, publisher records, reporting requirements, or arbitrary requirements regarding service hours. Paul in his letters to Timothy described the congregation as a family like arrangement; not a hierarchical arrangement where subordinates were beholden to superiors. Somehow, the modern day Governing Body has glossed over those letters when it comes to their relationship to the flock within the JW congregation.

First century Christianity was a relationship with Christ Jesus, not a membership within a corporate structure. What the Watchtower organization has built in the twentieth and twenty-first century is a corporate business style model whereby Christians are to relate to the leadership as employees would relate to an employer.

93

To SO CAL: What CO's and DO's do we all know?

by IreallydidwalkoutofaKH in

jw
friends

okay, in order it goes like this for me............brother peace 1980-83, brother rose 1984-86, brother yasko 1986-88, brother sekella 1988-91, brother billy ford 1992-95, brother davis 1996-99, brother irskin 2000-03 and then it gets kinda blurry....brother burge and another, brother hairston.

okay, that just about does it.

i have this topic becauce i tried reading the favorite co and do thread, but did not recognize any names......

Jeremy C

As you may remember, current GB member Samuel Herd was the District Overseer for the Los Angeles area back in the early 1980s. I can still remember his twangy voice echoing throughout the Norco assembly hall. When he spoke, the auditorium sounded as if one was sitting in a Texas cattle show instead of at the Faithful Slave’s feet.

Charles Senudko was also the D.O. for the Los Angeles area in the early 1980s. I remember his booming voice at the Dodger Stadium conventions; wondering if his talks were going to blow out one of the Society’s speakers.

One of the most memorable traveling overseers in my lifetime was D.O. J.D. Howard. He was a large African American brother who seemed to always be pre-occupied with vilifying the fads of the black friends from the podium. The man was a certifiable high chair tyrant who was known for going on tirades regarding people’s dress and grooming. I personally saw him chew people out for the most trivial and insignificant matters. There was no love lost when he got reassigned.

Here are some Circuit Overseers that I remember: Schlaegal, Russell Weaver, Dan Wheeler, Brad Lovett, Franklyn Park, Frank McCasslin, and William Ward.

24

wasn't studying the revelation book "wonderful"

by booby in

from a yahoo e-mail group

as we start the new book in our book study i am already missing the exciting time we had studying the revelation book.

though many in our bookstudy who were studying for the first time found it tough in the start, our book study overseer made it very easy.

Jeremy C

L. Ron Hubbard could not have produced a more delusional piece of religious fiction. The Revelation Climax book wooed the Witnesses with its seeming esoteric revelations and exposition on the mysteries of John’s visions. It’s quite an epoch tale of angelic messengers, wild beasts, lightening, scrolls, trumpet blasts, and new light - all with the Watchtower organization at the center of the great narrative.

All in all the book is nothing more than a collection of typical Fred Franz nonsense that will have to be shelved and put out of print within a matter of time. New geo-polictical developments and the passage of more time will require this light to be replaced by new light ( a flimsy paperback no doubt ). The only thing that this kind of material accomplishes within the organization is to add some excitement to an otherwise dull and uninspiring JW life.